AG Patterns- sewing question

[josephhswife]

I wonder if enough people contacted American Girl, if they would re-release the patterns? I can't imagine it costs them that much to print and it can't take up too much room to store them in a warehouse.

[[email protected]]

It seems so unfair!! The company (PC/AG) refuses to make these any more so that we can buy them, and it seems that it refuses to allow anyone to copy them and buy/sell them. It's like the troll sitting on his pot of gold.

I had always thought that if something was discontinued and unavailable by any other means, that it was ok to make copies of it. Is that not true? If not, it seems to me that it should be true, even for selling, because otherwise it really does seem unfair.
Joy

[moderator]

Joy, a lot of people have copyrighted things that will never be published or see the light of day. For example, I copyrighted a novel that I'm sure will never be published. People can also copyright a group of photos or artwork to use as a "portfolio" when looking for a job. This won't ever be published, but it is nevertheless protected from being copied by someone.

Why this gets so fuzzy is because the American government isn't going to come after you if you infringe on a company's rights. The company itself has to come after you with a lawsuit. This means they have to (1) find out about it somehow and (2) decide you're a big enough threat to their profit to spend lawyer and court fees on. Usually that's why so many people get by with it: they either don't get caught or aren't perceived as a big enough threat.

This site has some helpful information on copyright:
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
You can also read the official copyright website here:
http://www.copyright.gov/
[I can't get the site to work, but usually when I post that a site isn't working it's up the next day. [img]smile.gif[/img] ]

Joy, I totally understand why you think this isn't fair. American Girl has set up a "supply and demand" case on eBay. Since supply is low and demand is high, the patterns can go for a LOT of money, making them unavailable to the mainstream. It really isn't fair. In fact, I will admit that we have shared with friends--my mom borrowed Samantha's patterns from a friend of hers, and a friend shared Felicity's Christmas gown with me. This was before I closely looked more into pattern copyright protections and now I feel somewhat guilty. It makes me wonder if this type of thing is why American Girl discontinued the patterns, though. If everyone was circulating patterns, then the "reused" patterns were keeping people from buying the official outfits OR the patterns. It would remove American Girl from the equation completely.

The good news is that other companies sell patterns that can be used to make very similar outfits, with some minor changes. My mom has adapted patterns to make things like Molly's after school outfit and Addy's pajamas, and a pinafore dress for my Anne of Green Gables doll. I'm going to make Addy's birthday outfit from a Butterick pattern (only I can't find brown ricrac anywhere!) So don't give up hope if you can't find them. Lately the big-name companies have had two pattterns for 1930s clothes, for example, that look very Kit-like. [img]smile.gif[/img] And the patterns are so much cheaper if you wait for sales..."one" pattern in a professional pattern is usually actually several patterns, all for $1. The one I got is six outfits, meaning each pattern was under 17 cents!

Cynthia, I'm going to be digging out the Raggedy Ann/Andy pattern some time soon since I promised my mom I would make her Raggedy Andy for her birthday. I'll try to see what year it is, just out of curiosity. I think it is from between the 1930s-1940s, but I can't remember for sure. Ours has been somewhat a family heirloom passed down from my grandma to my mom, and then finally used by me...but so far no kids to make them for! It's very crumbly and difficult to use. Did you know that the books are being reprinted, unabridged, by a publishing company?

I just wanted to add that, Monika, I totally understand your frustration with not being able to get the patterns. We also used them due to financial reasons, and I feel like with American Girl discontinuing them, they are somewhat shutting out some of their customers who may have less "fun money." The patterns paid for themselves with the creation of the very first outfit...they were definitely economical and a great deal.

If anyone does want to start a little letter campaign to American Girl to ask them whether or not they will bring back the patterns, I am all for it and would be happy to also write a letter to them. I would personally like patterns for at least Kit. My bet is they have a good reason for discontinuing them, though. Have any of you written and asked? If not, I'd be happy to drop an e-mail.

<font color="#020176" size="1">[ March 01, 2004 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Melissa ]</font>

[Starlightdreamer]

Melissa,
Its funny you should mention Raggedy Ann and Andy in your post since I am currently on a big Raggedy kick. [img]smile.gif[/img] My husband is trying to win two auctions for vintage Raggedy Ann and Andy patterns (mint, not photocopies) as part of my birthday gift. They are the from 1977 and 1978 (the latter is my birth year [img]wink.gif[/img] ) and are the 15,20,25 inch pattern and the 36 inch pattern. I, too, think the earlier patterns more closely resemble the pictures in Johnny Gruelle's wonderful books. I do not like the new Simplicity one. As for the pattern photocopies, I don't think the sellers are in too much danger (at least the ones my father-in-law bid and won for my gift) as they were mail order patterns from companies that no longer exist. I will have to see if my grandmother can find the P.C. Samantha patterns she bought (One year she made them for my Sam doll.) and see if she will make copies for me. (No one read that right? Lol. [img]wink.gif[/img] ) I guess I have a touch of the rebel at heart. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[moderator]

Cynthia, I looked at the Raggedy Ann pattern today. Unfortunately, the publication date crumbled off the pattern, but I can read "McCall 820." It's the one with the green cape...you're a good guesser! I really like your idea of copying it. Just handling it caused more to crumble off the pattern.

I don't know if the whole Raggedy Ann series will be republished, but I also sure hope so! I first discovered Raggedy Ann as a little girl when we were living with my grandparents for a few months while my grandma was dying from diabetes. While we were there my mom found her old childhood Raggedy Ann book in her parents' home. I love vinyl dolls, too, but there is just something so special about a beloved, raggedy old rag doll with a special candy heart. And even something special about rag dolls in general.

Have you seen the Betsy McCall doll pattern (McCall 3423)? She wears clothes from the '50s. I have the pattern but haven't made the doll yet. I plan on adapting it to make her cousin Barbara. I'm going to see if patterns for the normal, vinyl Betsy McCall will work for the cloth Betsy since the pattern didn't come with many clothing options. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if this is a reprint or a totally new doll. She *looks* old, though! What a neat idea to get all those patterns. It will be fun but also nostalgic.

Monika, here are a couple things I forgot in my last post (because I almost wrote a college-length essay there! [img]wink.gif[/img] )

>Where might one find them other than e-bay?

Although these aren't the official patterns, the http://www.mccall.com/ site has craft pages of patterns. I like to go on here since at the pattern store you can't always squeeze your way in to get the catalog you want! There is one pattern by Vogue that looks very similar to Kit's coat and somewhat similar to her pajamas. Here are some patterns that might work to look similar to American Girl items:

Kirsten
Vogue 7564

Kit
McCall 4336
Vogue 7565
Vogue 7514
Vogue 7486

Molly
McCall 4066 (raincoat, boots, and hat)

>How much did they originally sell for?

When they first came out (my oldest catalog is only from 1991, though), the patterns were $18 each.

And if you try a harder pattern, don't get discouraged! I really like Jenny's idea of doing things bit by bit as little individual projects. I'm the type of person who always rushes through patterns, and that is probably one reason I have a hard time--I end up having to rip out seams and redo everything. [img]redface.gif[/img]

<font color="#020176" size="1">[ March 01, 2004 10:56 PM: Message edited by: Melissa ]</font>

[Starlightdreamer]

Melissa,
I think its wonderful your Raggedy pattern is being passed down in your family, what a lovely traditon. [img]smile.gif[/img] Does the patern include Ann's green cape? If it does I know the pattern you are speaking of because I've seen it on Ebay (albeit a copy) I've also seen a seller who used the pattern and is selling the Ann and Andy set for $150.00! [img]rolleyes.gif[/img] If it is getting crumbly you might want to do what my mom has done with her 1960s Whinne the Pooh (sp?) pattern and trace some of the deteriorating pieces onto fresh tracing/tissue paper. (Or make photo copies for your own personal use as Jeanette mentioned!) I have checked out of the library some of the reprinted books and have put them on my birthday wishlist. I wish they would reprint the entire series, do you know if they are planning to do that? I hope so as I'd like to read the whole series. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[Jeanette M.]

I was looking at the doll patterns on the Simplicity website the other day, and found a long-retired pattern that had been re-introduced! It is one that I have had in my pattern collection since the 60's! [img]smile.gif[/img] It's a baby doll pattern #5215. I'm not sure what made them bring it back again, but maybe writing to the pattern companies and asking about some of the favorite old patterns will bring similar results!

[moderator]

Jeanette, those are adorable patterns...they might even work for popular present-day dolls like My Twinn Babies, Apple Valley, and others since they are in several sizes up to 22". Thanks for pointing them out!

<font color="#020176" size="1">[ March 02, 2004 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Melissa ]</font>

[[email protected]]

I have my own theory about why AG has discontinued the AGCollection patterns.

I believe that it was after the Mattel change that the decision to discontinue the doll patterns was made. (The girl patterns disappeared long before that, I think). I think that that decision was made post-Pleasant, and that it was in the same vein as many of the other post-Pleasant decisions have been. She was very interested in helping her fans and customers, and especially those in the 7-12 age range, participate in the play and creativity.

She had craft projects in every doll's line. They have all been retired. She had patterns for girls to make their own clothes for their historical dolls. Those have been retired. She had blank books for girls to write their own stories for the AGOT dolls, with suggestions for how to do it. Those have been retired.

The bottom line for Mattel, when it comes to PC/AG, is, and has always been, the money. At least some of the main bottom lines for Pleasant was the educational value and quality and hands-on involvement and continuity. I think that all Mattel sees, when it looks at the patterns, is competition from its own customers. I think that its fear is that if you buy the pattern you won't be buying the ready-made outfits that you can make from the pattern. I think that its theory is that if you can't find a pattern you will give in and buy the expensive ready-made outfit from them.

I always felt that it was so very classy of Pleasant to provide those patterns. It said to me that she didn't feel threatened, and that providing sources for creativity for her customers and fans was more important to her than any possible losses for her on the money end of things. It also said to me that she understood that her products were out of range for some people, and that it was important to her to make a way for them to have access. This retirement says all the opposite things to me, when it comes to Mattel.
Joy

[Pat B]

Samantha's craft projects have been recycled in
her " Friendship fun book" . Mattell made a big mistake in cancelling the patterns. They expand interest in the AGs beyond the target age. I don't know if I would have purchased Samantha or Kirsten if the patterns had not been available. Mattell was probably worried about people selling duplicate outfits to those currently produced. They could have put a notice in the patterns that clothes for sale must be made in different colors or fabrics.
I see nothing wrong in making photocopies of patterbs as long as we do not sell them. A pattern gets damaged in normal use - pin holes , rips etc. I have seen some patterns that tell you
what enlargement or decrease you need to do to make various sizes. It is no different from the back up disk for our own use that we are allowed to do with computer programs.